I am not familiar with your conversations with bhaozi or barrel9 but I definitely do not think genetics have much to do with it. Girls who spent their formative adolescent and early adulthood years in China rarely prefer foreign men. Girls who spent their formative adolescent and early adulthood years in the West rarely prefer Asian men. It is clear as day and night to me.
East Asian cultures are traditionally rice farming. The traditional masculine image is a guy working in the rice field. Tanned, muscular and lean. You might want to incorporate some history and economics into the analysis.
Another point is, in Asia, people’s views about the opposite sex are formed during the years between puberty and college, which are all spent with people of the same nationality. As long as this set up continues, any form of male style that comes out tops is an authentic one.
In other words, sometimes it’s the process rather than the results.
I feel the diaspora cannot achieve this “clean environment” for ethnic Asian kids to mingle together and form normal ideas about the opposite sex. Everybody is bombarded by mainstream society’s media, teachers and students. So the concern is that the male image that results from the “unclean environment” is one that is detrimental to ethnic Asians.
This is possible, but aesthetics is highly subjective, so it is hard to point to one specific Asian look and say that is authentic.
In the end, you need to have “clean environments” where everybody is Asian. If glasses and nerds come out tops, then so be it. If roid man come out tops, then so be it. If some kind of Mongolian Gengkis Khan comes out tops, then so be it. If a red guard waving a little red book comes out tops… etc.
Your claim that native Chinese women date white guys is totally wrong, which shows you have no idea what goes on in China or you have some hidden agenda.
Native Chinese women living in China rarely have any interest in white men. Even in rare circumstances when a WMAF couple appears, the AF is almost always unattractive. Also, native Chinese are now enforcing unwritten social rules by ostracizing and humiliating any woman who steps out of line.
I am a native Chinese who previously spent significant time abroad. I actually know my homeland.
There is no tiger parenting in China. Nobody beats their kids or else they would go to jail. Instead, kids are treated like little emperors so the parenting style is more like “servant parenting” than “tiger parenting.”
Finally, the East does not have any “sins” so there is nothing to absolve. The white worshipping, money grubbing and status climbing types quickly end up as first generation emigrants. For the homeland, the emigration of these shitty people is like bodily waste leaving the person through defecation. The first generation emigrants are literally the feces exiting the homeland.
Now, it is not the fault of the later generations to be born in this situation as a “lost generation”. However, the later generations should be honest with themselves who caused their suffering.
Westernized Asian women are the enemy, period.
Most Russians and Eastern Europe up to Hungary are mixed AMWF descendants.
Native Asian women are living great lives in Asia, as are Native Asian men.
Only Asian American men are being ethnic cleansed systematically while being brainwashed into thinking they have it better than native Asian men (so you can all thank whitey for the ethnic cleansing). Similarly, only Asian American women are being fucked up, down and sideways by white men while being brainwashed into thinking they are superior to native Asian women (who are simply not interested in white men).
Native Asians are not Asian Americans. Asian American women love white men but native Asians have our own nation, government, language and culture. Hardly any native Asian women seek white men. Sexpats actually have very little luck except in really poor countries with really poor women.
Ethnic Asian immigrants are typically status climbing, morally challenged people in the homeland. That is why they chose to abandon the homeland while the vast majority prefer to remain loyal.
So when they raise a child and manipulate him/her for their economic and narcissistic desires, which is what this sub is about, naturally the daughters will be status climbing too.
Given that racism against ethnic Asians is accepted in American society, of course their daughters will choose white to raise their social status. It is a form of hatred for one’s own ethnic heritage, which is perceived as inferior and shameful.
I bet 200% of American-born Asian women in this subreddit date only non-Asian men!
What I saw in your post is, first, an incorrect assumption that Asian countries are unaware that ethnic Asians are treated poorly in Anglosphere countries (nowadays, a lot of — most? — people are aware of this fact) and, second, an unrealistic expectation that Asian countries should insulate themselves from superficial Western culture influence to avenge the way diaspora is treated.
Anglosphere has disproportionate geopolitical influence and soft power. Native Chinese are not insulated from this phenomenon. A good proportion of people recognize aspects of its ideology or culture as something with “universal appeal”.
However, this is not white worship because — at least for Chinese — they have their own sovereign country, not “colony”, not “enclave”, not “ethnic neighborhood”. They pay taxes to their own government and there are no US military on their soil. Aspects of foreign culture are there for the appropriation or enjoyment of locals rather than the locals being controlled or ruled by foreign powers.
Diaspora is literally ruled by white people. Since you lack the core Asian identity, yet are not assimilable into your country of citizenship, what I see is the projection of insecurities on to the homeland. Yet the homeland does not owe you anything. Just because white people treat you badly, should native Chinese treat white people badly too? If native Chinese wish to treat white people badly, it would be for their own good reasons such as geopolitical rivalry, not to avenge the diaspora per se.
I am sympathetic to the second+ generation diaspora but the unfortunate fact is native Chinese do not consider you one of their own. The membership card for the club is called a “Chinese passport.”
Taking China as an example, native Chinese are woke.
First generation Chinese emigrants are not woke because they are a self-selected group of the most white worshipping members of society. Once they lose the citizenship, they are no longer Chinese and their white worshipping has nothing to do with China.
The agenda is of the first generation is to exploit their children as “anchors” to interface with mainstream society while they stay insulated from racism.
The fate of Asian America will, sadly, be the vast majority of the AAF sell out and raise single parent hapas, the AAM die young and lonely and the first generation finally dies after they run out of children to exploit — in that chronological sequence.
The native Asians (or at least native Chinese) in recent years finally came to this realization and conclusion. The era of mass emigration has ended. There will be international students, tourists and business travelers but the vast majority of normal people are not interested in surrendering their homeland citizenship.
Ethnicity and culture are fairly subjective concepts. Citizenship is an objective category.
Ethnic Asians should be aware that first generation emigrants are the ones who caused the later generations to suffer. First generation emigrants are not even native Asians the moment they surrendered their homeland citizenship. They voluntarily surrendered it mainly due to their money grubbing, white worship and vanity.
The later generations are actually closer in ideology to those native Asians with no intention to emigrate and do not speak any foreign language. The later generation diaspora should override the first generation emigrants and deal directly with true, proud, native Asians physically in the homeland.
Sadly, being merely ethnic Asian will get you nowhere except exclusion and ostracism. Real Asians need to have the citizenship to be whole (and respected), which is what makes the first generation’s betrayal of their children that much more despicable.
The only way a first generation can possibly make it up to their children for screwing up their citizenship papers is to financially support their children life-long. The most recent nouveau riche emigrants might do this but the earlier 1980s to 2010 wave of emigrants do not. Instead, they extract energy and resources from their children.
I reckon your family background allows you to avoid the job market, which is why you are doing okay. Those ethnic Asians who need to deal with white people as their employers are getting shafted left and right. (Maybe Australia is not as bad. I am speaking mainly of other Anglosphere countries.)
I have to agree with u/Judy_Fenqiangic here. Not only does China have the gaokao, but also the zhongkao, which (at least in Beijing) is the high school entrance exam. These chinese kids grow up in this culture of constant stress of doing well in these exams. Studying literally never stops for them until college.
You have no idea what goes on China because you don’t live here. I live here.
Speaking to some natives here
There’s your problem. You are talking to first generation emigrants not native Chinese.
A native Chinese is a person with Chinese citizenship who did not surrender the citizenship or get permanent residency elsewhere. Usually, you need to physically be in China to talk to native Chinese — which you are not.
it’s essentially impossible to get accepted into a top university if you aren’t in a top high school because of how difficult the gaokao is and that chinese universities have quotas from certain high schools.
There are about 1.5 billion Chinese people. They did not all attend top universities. A lot of people are completely uneducated. Do you think some guy on a bicycle delivering takeout spent hours studying with his parents hovering over him?
Basically your argument is to exclude everybody who did not attend a top university and from the remainder you observe they all studied hard and then you generalize it back to the 1.5 billion population and say “everybody studies like crazy here” LMFAO.
Not to mention that, but the work culture here is just as brutal. Computer engineers work from 10-12 hour work days on average 6 days a week. That’s the norm.
Again, you have no idea because you don’t even live in China. What you described is Huawei. Not all 1.5 billion people work for Huawei.
Do you know how “hard” civil servants work for example? Come in at 10, read some newspaper, listen to boss talk, have lunch, nap, push some papers, have tea with colleagues, go home before 6.
That’s the norm. I bet thousands, if not millions of Chinese people subjected to this ridiculously high work, high stress environment would rather take tiger parenting in the States over trying to be successful in China. The levels of pressure and stress are not even close
Oh I see. You are not even in the work force. You are still in school. You think you will be “successful” in the West as a yellow man if you study real hard and keep your head low like white man’s bitch.
LMFAO no wonder so many native Chinese look down on diaspora with contempt. So many of you are completely brainwashed and white worshipping to the bone and speak loudly about a homeland you have no clue about.
News flash. You will not be successful anywhere. You will not be successful in the West because you are a yellow man. You cannot be successful in China either because you don’t speak the language or don’t have the citizenship or most likely both. That’s why you are the lost generation.
If you stayed or were born in China, at least you have a shot. Even if you fail, you can still have a normal live, just not as luxurious. Regardless, you would have social belonging as part of a nation. This is what your parents took away from you.
You are thinking like a diaspora, mate. Race only matters when you have the same citizenship. In Asia, where different ethnicities have different citizenships, the only thing that matters is your citizenship.
So a Chinese national will naturally discriminate against nationals of other countries that are unfriendly to China. A Chinese American will be categorized as “American” and disliked. Now a white American may be disliked as well but a native Chinese will expect the white guy to have some status within America, so he gets respect. They know a Chinese American has no status either so they will dislike the Chinese American for his citizenship and look down on him for his lack of status.
Again, this is the shitty situation created by the huge wave of white worshipping emigration from 1980 to 2015. They exploit their children as “anchors” in the adopted country for the parents’ convenience and then cut off their children’s escape route back to the homeland.
Also don’t forget African citizens in China are not Chinese nationals. Much of the time they do not even have valid visas. So the comparison between that (nationals versus non-nationals) and racism in Amerikkka (among nationals with different racial phenotypes) is completely misleading.
In fact, it simply underscores that the racism is so bad even Asian Americans think they are a completely alien population — as if they have a totally different nationality and passport from the mainstream. It is just another form of internalized racism. To a native Chinese, “you” are all the same — Amerikkkan citizens.
Another analogy is the term “Asian American” itself, bringing together East Asians, Southeast Asians, Indians, Arabs, Turks and Siberian Russians. A more accurate term would be “untouchable caste of Amerikkkan society” referring specifically to East Asians since others seem to get treated a bit better.
LOL again you have no clue. You are just a tourist. There is no integration option for diaspora anymore because native Chinese now look down on anybody without a PRC citizenship. You can’t possibly find a job and normal girls will not date you.
Your foreign passport plus passable Chinese combo may be good enough to find a hotel room, flights and restaurants like a tourist though. It is FAR FAR from enough to really integrate into China.
The vast majority of diaspora are in a very bad situation because the Anglosphere countries hate them and their own parents cut off their escape routes in exchange for bragging rights.
Your comment shows you haven’t the faintest clue what living in China is like. Have you studied in China? Worked in China? Get married in China? If not, you are in the same position as some Chinese national who stays in Australia for a year claiming to understand that country.
A native Chinese looks down on diaspora because you have no party connections while he has the family background to get things done. Maybe you and your family established a reasonable lifestyle abroad for yourself but the majority of emigrants (especially those who cut ties with the homeland) are just a bunch of 亡国奴 especially in a more rabidly racist country like US.
Do you know Chinese idioms? Can you speak and write like an educated person versed in classical literature? If not, native Chinese will look down you — some kind of “bananaman.”
Is this guy a Chinese citizen? No. He is a naturalized US citizen. So he is Amerikkkan. This is an Amerikkkan (of ethnic Chinese origin) who worships white people. No big surprise. Please do not associate him with a real Chinese person — defined as somebody with an actual Chinese passport.
The reason why AM are looked down upon in Western countries is because everybody else knows that Asian emigrants are white worshipping money grubbers who exploit their children as “anchors” to fix themselves to a Western country.
This is the sad truth that people do not want to admit. Yet it is the source of nearly all issues.
Normal Asians do not worship white people but the small minority that do so have a high propensity to emigrate. Once they emigrate, they exploit their children as “anchors” in the West to interface with the West while they pull the levers from behind the scenes.
The reason why many AF refuse to date AM is because they don’t want to date an anchor — somebody who is merely a tool used by his parents for their white worshipping agenda.
The bad news gets worse. Today, in some of the wealthier countries like China, the rich no longer emigrate — they may travel abroad or even temporarily live abroad but they do not want to surrender their citizenship. The earlier wave of emigrants are (correctly) viewed as traitors. The children of those earlier emigrants are viewed as “write offs” who have no place in the East or in the West.
People who voluntarily surrender their homeland citizenship to get a Western citizenship are the most white worshipping on the planet.
Excluding the economic migrants from 1970s and before, nearly every single first generation emigrant from 1980s to 2015 is some kind of white worshipping, status climbing, money grubbing nouveau riche.
You think the “enemy” is the white supremacist mainstream society? Actually the real enemy is our own parents and ancestors — they are the ones who earned the Asian American “community” the well deserved title of the most white worshipping race.
The sellout AF are simply carrying on the mission of their parents. The AM end up confused like why does this society hate me? I am only trying to fulfill the dream of my parents (who came from Asia and worked so hard blah blah blah). Actually, it is precisely this dream that is the source of the problem. Asians have our own homelands and do not belong in Western countries and the first generation emigrants sacrificed their kids on the alter of white worship.
I have been living in China for more than ten years. Nearly 100% of locals believe the bragging from the first generation emigrants, specifically, that second+ generation diaspora are honorary white people.
In the past, this just manifested itself as stereotyping — they ask incessantly “Why do you return? Isn’t it heaven living abroad?” Today, locals are much more nationalist, look down on emigration and hate first generation emigrants. The attitude toward second+ generation is now prejudice and derision.
They see us as sons and daughters of traitors — which is technically true but sons and daughters of traitors need not be traitors themselves. This idea that people have free agency is something way beyond the imagination of the locals, unfortunately.
So the bottom line is: the traitorous first generation emigrants have not only fucked up their kids by raising them in a white supremacist country but they have also poisoned the atmosphere of the homeland against their kids. Diaspora are in a very difficult situation if they only today come up with the idea of repatriation.
It’s a blindspot that Asian Americans are susceptible to. Just because mainstream society does not accept you and calls you “Asian” does NOT mean you are actually anywhere close to a real Asian from a real Asian country.
Real, native Asians have complete and total command of their language and literary traditions. They grow up in a system and receive formal education in a way that binds them together with shared experiences.
Moreover, most Asian countries are politically stable and socially stable. There isn’t in-fighting or internal subversion like there is in the Asian American “community.” People actually have pride in their country, their nation and their flag.
What happens is the most extreme white worshipping group of native Asians tend to emigrate abroad. Asia is basically exporting its white worshipping population to keep itself clean and pure.
The extreme white worshippers land in Western countries, which are full of racists in the first place, and commence their full blown colonial imperial race-play. Wackiness ensues — this what is called “Asian America” community and has absolutely nothing to do with real, native Asians.
The diaspora “community” was a contradiction in the first place, founded on a desire to assimilate into a group that hates you. Faced with open hate, the diaspora deluded itself continuously believing there is some hope, somewhere, somehow. Eventually, all the self-delusions come crashing down and in hindsight it was obvious from day one that concentration camps was always going to be “Plan B” for mainstream society to deal with diaspora. I saw this coming more than a decade ago.
Well folks, the writing was on the wall for a very long time. Endless barrage of anti-Asian / anti-China propaganda. Systemic promotion of subversive elements within Asian “community” such as WMAF. Government crackdown on Asian Americans in STEM industries — first political spies, then “economic” spies, now “cultural” spies. Scapegoats. Random acts of violence everywhere. Casual racism filling the vaccum elsewhere. “Disaggregation” just like labelling “Juden” on suspicious population.
All that was left was the man showing up and rounding them up for concentration camps… and here we are finally… it’s time to unveil the new protector of Amerikkkan freedom and way of life: the concentration camp!
Your post hit the nail on the head. Never underestimate the resolve and solidarity of the mainstream society in excluding Asians from real corridors of power. Instead, they cleverly peddle a superficial Asian (or Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, Filipino, etc.) community to numb the first generation emigrants into thinking they are in control.
Actually, the first generation emigrants are in control of nothing. The government remains in control of the mainstream. The police remains in control of the mainstream. The banks and big businesses remain in control of the mainstream. The unions remain in control of the mainstream. The media remain in control of the mainstream.
But you let the first generation emigrants gather together in some Asian mega church or whatever and they feel as if they are “at home.” The moment they realize they are not at home is when they change from consumers to producers.
When they have to actually make a living they realize there are no jobs. When they try to open a business their property rights are not protected. When they wonder what is going on by then it is too late: their sons have wasted years and years getting an education without real job prospects. Their daughters have spent years and years watching white savior Hollywood movies.
If these Asian enclaves never formed and all these Asian families were scattered in redneck hick towns maybe they would have figured things out much faster and retreated back to the homeland. The Asian enclaves serve to paralyze the first generation emigrants while the Western toxin works its way into the bodies of the second generation sons and daughters to change their lives forever for the worse.
This topic is actually quite interesting because it highlights how ethnic Asians have no place on the mainstream political spectrum and by extension no support from any political force in Western countries.
Liberals love other POC but hate AA men. Conservatives dislike all POC not only AA men.
The only solution is a radical departure from the mainstream political spectrum. To become “woke” is to discover Asian variants of socialism / Marxism / communism which are linked to the nationalist independence (anti-colonial) movements.
This is all one step on the journey to becaming a native Asian by casting aside the hyphenated “American” which was a fake illusion from the start anyway.
I respectfully disagree. I am middle aged now and I can tell you racism is worse today than decades ago.
In those days, racism was more targeted toward blacks and Asians were just “perpetual foreigners.” Maintain civility and whites are usually polite enough to self-censor casual racism in their heads. Today, middle class blacks are far more influential and protected.
Back then the Asian immigrants were mainly refugees — honest, hard working people — instead of money grubbing, status climbing, white worshipping immigrants.
The latter group spawned the WMAF white fever women. The white fever women actively encourage racism against Asian men in an effort to assimilate. They are seeking the extinction of pure Asian population (at least in Western countries maybe worldwide).
In short, today the racism is worse because liberals only hate Asians and because WMAF white fever women are the main perpetrators. There also weren’t so many Asians in the West back then to create a backlash.
If Bruce Lee was a young man today, the Jews would completely shut him out from any Hollywood entertainment media.
The people on Zhihu fall into two camps:
People who believe success comes from the individual will bash the OP.
People who believe success comes from the success of the collective will support the OP.
At the end of the day, the collective is a huge determinant of a person’s success. So the people who believe success comes from the individual or some silly idea like a person’s attitude only are living in a fantasy world. It’s like saying a really good soldier can defeat an entire army by himself with a rifle. Conflicts and struggles are won with team work not individual efforts.
The people with an unrealistic idea about individual success are deluding themselves deliberately because they themselves wish to emigrate to Western countries for their own selfish reasons but want to portray it as being “good for the children.” These are the people attacking the OP.
Right wing Chinese are sell outs already. There is no hope for them. The only hope is that they all leave China to become slaves to Western countries.
That is why two+ generation AA have no hope either. Western countries are by their very nature just labor camps for Asian coolies. There are too many right wing Chinese. You cannot stop hordes of them from pursuing their coolie dream.
The most you can do is try to save their children but this is very difficult because right wing Chinese will drag their children into the fire with them.
In the Chinese context, historically you had communism / socialism / Maoism. This is labelled the left to contrast against capitalism / imperialism which is labelled the right.
Maoism was always a mix of “international socialism” ideals and ethno nationalism. Chinese ethno nationalism can be traced back to Sun Yat-Sen because his vision was that Han Chinese should overthrow foreign Manchurian dynasty.
Today, communism is abandoned but ethno nationalism remains. Note that left is conservative in China while right is conservative in the West. Conservative as in seeking to preserve some historical status quo.
Chairman Mao was a Plato philosopher king. He was a poet, strategist and political theorist rolled into one. During the Korean War facing the most powerful military force in the world with only a rag tag “millet and rifle” army 小米加步枪 they tried to intimidate him asking how he would possibly expect to win. He said “you fight your way, I fight my way” 你打你的我打我的. Totally showed disrespect to those trying to intimidate him.
Asian Americans should learn about the Korean War to apply its lessons.
It is not 100 years ago when there hardly any Asians in USA. Asian Americans are already 3% of the USA population. However, they are not represented 3% in positions of power. Not even close. On top of that, the people who emigrate to USA from Asia since the 1980’s tend to be waaaaaay above average in terms of wealth in the first place. So the fact their descendants perform poorly is statistically significant.
Moreover, there is a deliberate policy of genocide against AA. The people you listed are simply the outliers and not even very impressive either. It does not help to try to shift from white worship to “worship a very short list of [marginally] successful Asian Americans as a central tenant of your everyday existence.”
In reply to
In China, left wing Chinese already know that living under the rule of a foreign race cannot be a good thing. We are daily engaged in strategic competition against the West at the highest geopolitical level.
However, the right wing are always trying to undermine the left. They even gained power during the rule of JIang and Hu. They are ready to sell out China for a profit.
These people on Zhihu fall neatly into the left wing and right wing categories. The left wing have little interest emigrating to the West in the first place. The right wing deludes themselves into thinking worshipping the West and they will get a bone.
Right wing Chinese will attack any idea that challenges their worship of their Western master. A message from an ABC pointing out that their views are wrong will, of course, generate a backlash.
The best hope is that these facts about ABC genocide adds a little bit of ammo to the left wing to maintain superiority over the right wing. The deliberate emasculation of all AA men and sexual objectification of AA women is a genocide policy intended to destroy any hope of them creating a sustainable community.
Hu’s policy was that China should play it passive, be nice to everybody, don’t confront even if it means swallowing some pride. I don’t think it would have gone as far as accepting foreign military bases of course.
Xi is more like we are not afraid to openly compete even though we prefer peace but if conflict is imposed on us “well then [shrug].”
Just like a fractal pattern has a micro pattern hidden within a macro pattern the above dilemma is similar to what Asian Americans are facing.
White people have their lies about American dream and racial equality.
First generation have their lies about “doing it for their children.”
Actually, both are equally liars and they are on the same team. White people do it for their racial supremacy. First generation do it because they are already pathologically worshippers of white people and they sacrifice their own children on the alter of their white gods.